>>Actually I think it would suit everyone best as it would bring balance to the defense of a backstab

There is already balance to the defense of a backstab. Its already much harder for the backstabber than the backstabbee. How many skills does the backstabber need to train hard to be successful? 4... BS, stalk, hiding and weapon. How many skills does the target need to train to avoid it? 2... perception and evasion. And PLUS if you have enough perception, then ALL of your defenses are taken into account which further goes against the backstabber. If the backstabber has even one of those skills lacking, their backstab attempt will more than likely be a total failure.

Did I also mention that of the backstab attempts that have been made on me, none have ever killed me? So I would say its pretty balanced. Its not everyone elses fault that you lack in the skills required to defend against it. Stop with your personal vendetta.

>>though the fact that yes it would suit my character is an added perk.

And again we come to the real reason behind all this, the fact that shield is your highest defense.

<<<There is already balance to the defense of a backstab.>>> not in regards to armor and mainly shields.


Stabbity, block, you go thud.

Use that beer sponge you call a brain!

<<<Just because the balancing factors of defense doesn't suit you, that does not mean they aren't there.>>>

Just because they do suit you, does not mean they shouldn't be there

<<<Just because you don't like the answer you got, doesn't mean it isn't the right answer.>>>

Just because you like the answer, doesn't mean it's the right answer.



Stabbity, block, you go thud.

Use that beer sponge you call a brain!

>>you seem to forget. The GMs don't code just for Characters vs Character.

Hi, this isn't true, people need to stop saying it. There have been a huge number of occasions that things have been specifically coded for Character vs Character. Backstab used to not be usable on Character vs Character, and was said that it never would. A GM took the time to change that as well as code the thugging checks for it. So responding to someone asking for a GM to continue to code something for backstab to make the checks more fair in their opinion [whether the GMs decide that is balanced or not] with "they don't code for CvC", is naive at best.

I don't really have an opinion on whether player backstabbing is balanced or not, but I can guarentee dismissing someone's comments on the subject because GMs "don't code for CvC" after they specificly did code for CvC with backstab no less, is pretty funny.

---

I am not arguing with you - I am telling you.

James A. McNeill Whistler

<<Everyone thus far has said that it is the right answer.>>

Wrong. I have posted in this or a similar thread several times and never have I said that "it is the right answer." It appears that "everyone," in your opinion, can be defined as "everyone who posts espousing agreement with what I said."

Do I care too much about the whole backstab thing? Not particularly, and I don't have enough data to come up with a learned opinion by myself. However, it is interesting to point out that, thus far (and to the best of my knowledge), only players have been posting. Put frankly, we don't know squat when it comes to the formula.

Drongol's Player


PC also stands for "Paying Customer."

Actually we do know squat. We know that in the formula, you can't shield block a backstab. We also know that it makes NO sense for you to shield block a backstab. We also know that you won't ever be able to shield block a backstab.

That's right, I said it, NEVER. Argue all you want about possibilities, but I just laid the hammer down. It will never happen. And not the kind of never like horses, the kind of never like giving us 1000 free ranks to distribute amongst whatever skills we want as a present for Damissak's next birthday.

It's not feasable, it makes no sense, and it's not something that any GM in their right mind would code up due to the ridiculous implications of it.

Get over it, and end this thread.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.

>>If it becomes a Paladin ability tied in with sixth sense, it can. It's something provided by the gods. There, it's explained, thank you. (Works for magic, cookies, roars)

I'm sorry, maybe you didn't read my post where I said it will never happen and just to drop it.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.

If the ability was coded, the sixth sense would be to see the attack coming and then it wouldn't be an issue because you can already shield block it.

If you don't see it coming then the Gods themselves could come down and scream in your ear and it wouldn't matter because the blade is IN YOUR FLESH.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.

>>Makes me wish I saved the multiple posts by the GMs and SGMs [people who actually matter] stating player backstabbing would NEVER happen.

A GM never is sometimes overturned, but when I say never, I haven't been wrong yet. That's because I only say never to stupid and ridiculous things that make no sense and that no one in their right mind would ever code up.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.

Barbarians will never be able to cast spells.


- Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill because they pissed me off.

TOLD.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.

Thanks for lettin us know that you're done, a post few of us could have done without.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

It's only after we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything.

Hmm, I wouldn't worry so much about backstab being powerful CvC or for hunting, more so than sniping. Sniping you don't come out of hiding and maintain your distance therefore not putting yourself at risk with a missed shot. On the other hand, for backstabbing one must hide, advance, stalk and backstab. You have to pass a hiding vs. perception check when hiding, stalking vs. perception check while attempting to stalk your opponent, pole range stalking vs. perception check, yet another pole to melee stalking vs. perception check and then a backstab to perception check. Is your head hurting yet?

Sniping is just hiding and sniping check. While dancing putting me at 300+ defense I have been sniped by someone with 80 ranks in Short Bow and beaten in a spar. The person of course had 300+ stealth skills so that's just to show you how much sniping adds to your accuracy. Also don't wish to be misleading so I wanted to point out the fact that it did take him like 10 minutes to win the spar due to low bow skill but he was able to be victorious because I was unable to beat him in stealth checks. Backstab is lethal yes but very hard to pull off. I do want to reiterate that a paladin should have the best protection against backstab (after failing a stealth check against the backstabber)

Let me elaborate, Paladins are tertiary survival so it is common giving the same amount of training time that they will have far less perception than a primary survival guilds stealth skills. There is nothing wrong with that because those are the methods the survivalist guilds use to get around. In the other hand, when the Paladin fails his check his massive godly constructed armor should afford him a great deal of protection. I was told a few days ago this is already the case. I am uncertain of this fact but I will give the benefit of the doubt.

My last comment is that thieves aren?t the guild they should be. In my opinion the Thieves, team leaders should focus more on the assassin?s aspect of their career. Thieves in general are pretty darn powerful for a guild that barely focuses in combat; actually to be honest Clerics are more combat oriented than thieves. This is because Thieves Team Leaders throughout the years have taken the guild in that direction. With the abilities, you guys possess now I don?t see a problem of slightly shifting your focus in such dark arts.

There is no reason what so ever to weaken your abilities or efficiency but not many combat oriented abilities need to be added to your already well developed arsenal.

War Hawk Catullus

Ok I figured someone would come up like Teeklin and doubt my statements. For your information if was Gregarin I sparred back like 4-5 months ago. He did indeed have 80+ ranks in short bow I have 37 reflex I believe he has like 40's agility that alone would have not made up such a discrepency in weapon ranks but him completely overwhelming the stealth checks is what awarded him such a bonus that and any cookies he could have had up. Still that's an insane amount of skill increase, we're talking about 200 more ranks. So yes sniping is all that and I would love to have it. In fact I'd give the privilege of being able to dual load just to get that skill.

War Hawk Catullus

I would place the sniping bonus at 10%, maybe. Probably less than that.


-Teeklin Tessenoak, Proud Ranger of Elanthia

That's why it's called a shortcut; if it was easy it would just be "The Way"

I can assure you there is no way in hell it's 10% because I tend to like rangers thieves sniping me just to check how well I'm able to defend against it and I have had snipers hit me with 100 less ranks in skill all the time, yes the 200 mark I didn't account his k'hri and lets say it was my base evasion at 260 ranks, come to think of it I was dancing eagle so had no defense modifier. Lets say he had 89 so round off to 90 then say K'hri increased it by what? 40 ranks in bow? that's 130 effective so far and say his additional 7 points of agility increased his skill by another 30 ranks so that 160 vs 260 then he's sniping which you say it's just 10% increase to his base ranks? that would only be 10 more ranks rounded off. I'm an idiot, this regard this post as well as my last post. I just remembered he did something weird to me that put me extremely imbalanced. Think he might have been hamstringing me with low attack power to throw me off balance and then finish me off with the bow.

Ps: My apologies to even start this thread.

War Hawk Catullus

oh just got down to the disregard part lol if your off balance then yeh hed hit you even harder and more often


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.

>A GM never is sometimes overturned, but when I say never, I haven't been wrong yet.
>Teeklin

It's hard to be wrong when you make no sense.

Tessaa

>I dont know about that, you seem to manage just fine.

Just part of being a badass.

Tessaa

>Or a moron.

Ranger 1 Warmage bigfatzero