It was/is my understanding that celps specifically have an aim penalty to ranged weapons. For a full 12 second aim you essentially get credit for 6 seconds, or half of whatever your aim time is. Not sure but I didn't think it applied to TM as well?

~Katt

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A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!

I should also mention that when I was killing super celps with upper 500s TM, it was probably before some of the downtweaks to CL. Specifically the nerve damage reduction.

<<I'm really unclear why there is a such difference among individual's experiences in regard to TM.

I was thinking the same thing. Weird. I suppose the tert vs primary is easy to understand, but not the primary vs. primary difference.


Madigan

If you're missing, that's contributing to the time it takes you to lock. If you have to wait for full target to hit, same. If you're not doing much damage, same. To learn best you have to find something you can spam spells on while hitting for damage. I would try maybe dropping back to black apes and seeing if that improves things for you. If your TM is ahead of your weapons you should be able to learn everything fine in the goblin/ape area.

<<No way. Takes me upward of an hour to lock in black gobs if I'm able to at all. I'm unable to lock at all in apes.

I wasn't impressed by the spawn rate of either hunting ground, but I understand that it's a privacy concern trumping convenience for you. Part of the TM problem is that minimum prep, snap cast spells can and do routinely kill creatures you can't handle more than 2 of at melee.

<<I'm afraid you're way off base here. I can dance all day with 4 of either of these creatures. Also what are you talking about privacy? This is about a place to learn TM. Yes the spawn sucks, but the major concern is that it takes me 14 hits to move mindstate in gobs as I indicted above. That rate gain is completely unsuited for experience.

I figured since you avoided the matter of which spells you were using you play a necromancer and thus privacy becomes an issue. You could probably learn TM more efficiently in super celps with the increased spawn rate. The rate you're mentioning is not significantly worse than training weapons, as has been alluded to. TM sucks. At some point, everything starts to feel tedious to train.

>>TM sucks.

Discuss.

>>I figured since you avoided the matter of which spells you were using you play a necromancer

BLB and ACS are necro spells, so yes I am a necro. No, privacy is not a concern.

Super celp spawn is great and the experience per hit is good, but I can't hit them reliably via spam.

Alisander

The zombie trick isn't bad, but it doesn't move TM enough to make much of a difference. I've found it works much better if you can set the zombie in an adjacent room so that it doesn't kill your spawn.

Alisander

<< privacy becomes an issue. You could probably learn TM more efficiently in super celps with the increased spawn rate. >>
aren't at least some of the celepeze in an area considered "in town"? if so they would be in a justice area.


War is Peace, Truth is Lies. -george orwell

My TM sucks comment pertains to training it. While it's a breeze for my Moon Mage thanks to the hax that is multicasting (which I've been lead to believe is disappearing in Magic 3.0), it's plain old tedious for Clerics. Can't speak to War Mages, mine is still 30th and will probably be 30th forever as I have zero interest in the guild.

For the record, all of celpeze is a justice area with the exception of some of the watery areas they spawn in. However, most of the people on Mer'Kresh could probably not care less about a necromancer. The general methodology to surviving on Mer'Kresh is be polite, be quiet, and keep to yourself.

>>My TM sucks comment pertains to training it. While it's a breeze for my Moon Mage thanks to the hax that is multicasting (which I've been lead to believe is disappearing in Magic 3.0), it's plain old tedious for Clerics. Can't speak to War Mages, mine is still 30th and will probably be 30th forever as I have zero interest in the guild.

If your talking about TKS, then IIRC, it'll be more akin to what FoU or Chain Lightning where it strikes everything at once, rather than its single target pulse over a duration that it is now.

If your talking about multishot spells, like TKT with the TKS upgrade, then thats staying. But FF can do the same for clerics, and FoU can damage everything in the room at once its just probably the most inefficient AoE out of the three prime guilds, mainly because of the prep time. Also doesn't work to well on celps. Slightly over hunting and using the accuracy of Horn, I've heard does wonders for cleric TM, granted the spawns are enough to keep up with the wanton death you dish out.

AE + FF on cursed/undead might prove to mimic something akin to TKS + Another spell, but I can't test that at the moment since my cleric is no longer in existence, nor has he been for many years.

_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton

<<Scratch what I said about AE, I just remembered by the time you put enough mana into it to get enough bolts to make that method worth it. It pretty much destroys the target long before the bolts run out. Though, might be worth testing on fire resistant mobs.

FF has its own issues but can be useful. My Cleric cannot learn TM from any of the undead in the game normally. FoU is...of questionable use in places like assassins and intercessors.

Clerics typically end up falling back on casting HORN a lot. It's not bad, roughly analogous because HORN teaches so well despite not being fine targetable.

The bottom line is that it becomes difficult to learn TM because at a certain juncture every spell that teaches TM decently one-hits anything at minimum prep. Hopefully Magic 3.0 addresses that.