New crafted bows and ammo have me excited to try bows again, especially the elemental arrows, so I'd like to get the rundown on how bows work now. Basically, can someone summarize the interaction of stick bows with parry and shield? Defense penalties, accuracy penalties, roundtime penalties, etc. If it matters, Bard.
ILLIENA
NINEVAH1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
04/30/2015 11:52 AM UTC
>>Basically, can someone summarize the interaction of stick bows with parry...
Like any other aimable ranged weapon, if you hold it while in a parry stance you will be working without parry.
>>...and shield?
You take the same penalty to offense (and/or)? defense as you do using a two-handed weapon with shield. Which means it's not noticeable unless the target can hurt you easily.
>>Defense penalties, accuracy penalties, roundtime penalties
These only come from using an arm-worn shield while using bow, there are no other inherent penalties to using a bow otherwise. The penalties are only noticeable in PvP for me, and never a problem in day to day training. You will have a +1 second loading RT while wearing a shield.
>>If it matters, Bard.
Sadly it does, Rangers and Barbs are the best suited to use bows. They lack the shield penalty if wearing a small shield since they are both Armor secondary and both have dual load. Then Rangers also have -1 second load RT from a quiver and dual snipe.
Like any other aimable ranged weapon, if you hold it while in a parry stance you will be working without parry.
>>...and shield?
You take the same penalty to offense (and/or)? defense as you do using a two-handed weapon with shield. Which means it's not noticeable unless the target can hurt you easily.
>>Defense penalties, accuracy penalties, roundtime penalties
These only come from using an arm-worn shield while using bow, there are no other inherent penalties to using a bow otherwise. The penalties are only noticeable in PvP for me, and never a problem in day to day training. You will have a +1 second loading RT while wearing a shield.
>>If it matters, Bard.
Sadly it does, Rangers and Barbs are the best suited to use bows. They lack the shield penalty if wearing a small shield since they are both Armor secondary and both have dual load. Then Rangers also have -1 second load RT from a quiver and dual snipe.
COLDLIGHT
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 01:18 AM UTC
Kodius, there was a recent discussion in the moon mage combat folder comparing bows with crossbows and why so many players have given up on bow. I'll put the link to my last post here with information I was hoping you could comment upon.
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Moon%20Mages/Combat%20for%20Moon%20Mages/view/729
I had seen the bow shooting hindrance message but never really tested it. Now that I have a few numbers it doesn't look good. If you've said it before then I've missed it, but are there going to be shield accuracy penalties for bow in the future?
http://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Moon%20Mages/Combat%20for%20Moon%20Mages/view/729
I had seen the bow shooting hindrance message but never really tested it. Now that I have a few numbers it doesn't look good. If you've said it before then I've missed it, but are there going to be shield accuracy penalties for bow in the future?
COLDLIGHT
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 03:44 AM UTC
Crosspost
I really need to do more hunting. Too many logs and not enough combat.
Okies, turns out my sample was skewed. This sample isn't what I'd like either, but anyway, it turns out there isn't much difference between the load/shoot weapons. It annoys me to mess up and jump the gun, but I did. What can I say? Actually, I'm delighted bow does better than my earlier sample seemed to show.
It still makes me wonder though. Shooting a bow gives the "shield hinders slightly" message. This larger sample seems to show that any penalty really is distinctly minor, borderline noise, especially since crossbow and sling are so close.
That seems to eliminate the only complaint I had with bow. I realize others are more concerned with RT.
I really need to do more hunting. Too many logs and not enough combat.
Okies, turns out my sample was skewed. This sample isn't what I'd like either, but anyway, it turns out there isn't much difference between the load/shoot weapons. It annoys me to mess up and jump the gun, but I did. What can I say? Actually, I'm delighted bow does better than my earlier sample seemed to show.
| Weapon | Total Shots | Misses | Accuracy |
| Bow | 329 | 31 | 91% |
| Crossbow | 211 | 14 | 93% |
| Sling | 306 | 21 | 93% |
It still makes me wonder though. Shooting a bow gives the "shield hinders slightly" message. This larger sample seems to show that any penalty really is distinctly minor, borderline noise, especially since crossbow and sling are so close.
That seems to eliminate the only complaint I had with bow. I realize others are more concerned with RT.
NINEVAH1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 11:33 AM UTC
>>That seems to eliminate the only complaint I had with bow. I realize others are more concerned with RT.
When I recommended Xbow over Bow it's only because Xbow is the optimal weapon for everyone except 2 guilds. If you are aware of the penalties of using Bow as one of the other guilds, and you still want to use it, it's a perfectly viable weapon in PvE, and usable in PvP.
When I recommended Xbow over Bow it's only because Xbow is the optimal weapon for everyone except 2 guilds. If you are aware of the penalties of using Bow as one of the other guilds, and you still want to use it, it's a perfectly viable weapon in PvE, and usable in PvP.
BADGOPHER
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 12:16 PM UTC
>When I recommended Xbow over Bow it's only because Xbow is the optimal weapon for everyone except 2 guilds.
Are those two Ranger/Barb, for dual load?
Are those two Ranger/Barb, for dual load?
NINEVAH1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 12:31 PM UTC
>>Are those two Ranger/Barb, for dual load?
And the lack of shield penalty when using a small arm-worn shield. They lose the penalties and gain functionality.
My posts aren't an attack on Rangers/Barbs being good with bows though, just so I'm clear. I just want everyone to have an understanding of the differences between the two when making a choice.
And the lack of shield penalty when using a small arm-worn shield. They lose the penalties and gain functionality.
My posts aren't an attack on Rangers/Barbs being good with bows though, just so I'm clear. I just want everyone to have an understanding of the differences between the two when making a choice.
YOFIE
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 07:45 PM UTC
Would the Tailwind spell basically offset the small shield penalty? In that case any MU guild able to find it on a scroll...
Agreed with the dual load thingie but otherwise.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
Agreed with the dual load thingie but otherwise.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
NINEVAH1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/01/2015 10:58 PM UTC
>>Would the Tailwind spell basically offset the small shield penalty?
Yes, but if you are making that argument then Rangers have STW and Barbs have Eagle Form, and both of them have Bows in SoI. They lack the shield penalty and can buff the Bow skill higher than most MU guilds. That makes them better suited for the weapon than other guilds before you even factor in dual load/snipe, and reduced load from quiver.
Yes, but if you are making that argument then Rangers have STW and Barbs have Eagle Form, and both of them have Bows in SoI. They lack the shield penalty and can buff the Bow skill higher than most MU guilds. That makes them better suited for the weapon than other guilds before you even factor in dual load/snipe, and reduced load from quiver.
YOFIE
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/02/2015 01:47 AM UTC
not so much makin an arguement but curious..
yer right of course, which stands to reason given the primary weapon vs secondary thing
carry on..
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
yer right of course, which stands to reason given the primary weapon vs secondary thing
carry on..
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
MKIBBE1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/02/2015 10:25 PM UTC
Just a side note for you. See the Wind ONLY works for Rangers also. Got my hands on a scroll for it as a WM and boosted all ranged but HT, but still load and fire penalty with arm worn shield. Just in case people didn't know.
[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
NINEVAH1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/02/2015 10:35 PM UTC
>>Just a side note for you. See the Wind ONLY works for Rangers also. Got my hands on a scroll for it as a WM and boosted all ranged but HT, but still load and fire penalty with arm worn shield. Just in case people didn't know.
That is because the shield penalty is removed when they wear a small shield because they are Armor secondary. The info you are talking about was for 2.0 when you could not even use a shield with bow, and STW and Eagle dance would allow them to use a shield with bow. But yes, the lack of shield penalty is an Armor secondary/primary perk not a spell benefit.
All STW does for Rangers (and other guilds) now is buff all ranged weapons expect HT.
That is because the shield penalty is removed when they wear a small shield because they are Armor secondary. The info you are talking about was for 2.0 when you could not even use a shield with bow, and STW and Eagle dance would allow them to use a shield with bow. But yes, the lack of shield penalty is an Armor secondary/primary perk not a spell benefit.
All STW does for Rangers (and other guilds) now is buff all ranged weapons expect HT.
MKIBBE1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/03/2015 02:17 AM UTC
>That is because the shield penalty is removed when they wear a small shield because they are Armor secondary. The info you are talking about was for 2.0 when you could not even use a shield with bow, and STW and Eagle dance would allow them to use a shield with bow. But yes, the lack of shield penalty is an Armor secondary/primary perk not a spell benefit.
Oh so this info isn't valid for shield now? I don't play a ranger didn't realize they just got the no penalty without it. Thought one of the Rangers (in plat) said they needed to cast it still. Someone get to updating!
The exceptions to the stick bow penalty are as follows:
##A Paladin wearing a medium or small shield.
##A Barbarian wearing a small shield.
##A Ranger wearing a small shield with See the Wind active.
[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
Oh so this info isn't valid for shield now? I don't play a ranger didn't realize they just got the no penalty without it. Thought one of the Rangers (in plat) said they needed to cast it still. Someone get to updating!
The exceptions to the stick bow penalty are as follows:
##A Paladin wearing a medium or small shield.
##A Barbarian wearing a small shield.
##A Ranger wearing a small shield with See the Wind active.
[20:11] Chatter[Arathael] Usually only get skill when it's successful.
[20:13] Chatter[Morpion] Thats why Arathael has 0.00 ranks in Getting Girls
[20:14] Chatter[Arathael] =(
NINEVAH1
Re: How do bows work with defense?
05/03/2015 05:41 AM UTC
>>##A Ranger wearing a small shield with See the Wind active.
Yea, this is wrong as I just tested with my little Ranger and had no penalties with a small shield and bow without STW up. Rangers do have to cast HoL to use dual load though. I'm changing it now.
Yea, this is wrong as I just tested with my little Ranger and had no penalties with a small shield and bow without STW up. Rangers do have to cast HoL to use dual load though. I'm changing it now.
