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One more stab at this, because in re-reading my last response I don't think I addressed something important that I wanted to:
>> ... but I just find this statement very frustrating, and a prime example of the cake and eat it to.
Empaths do not exist solely to heal other player characters.
Clerics do not exist solely to raise other player characters.
Likewise, necromancers do not exist solely to be your adversary.
I'm happy to play the part of the adversary, and play if often, but if you think that me wanting to do anything else RP-related while in game is me doing it wrong, or asking to "have my cake and eat it too", then I've got some qualms with that argument.
I don't think it's unreasonable when talking (generally) about events to err on the side of participation and, based on each character's actions and choices, let the chips fall where they may. Do they make interesting and compelling choices? Do they surprise you? Do they take some agency?
Again: context matters. I'm not talking about waltzing into the Temple, or strolling into the court in Therengia, and not expecting a swift and violent reaction to that.
>> An example im reluctant to use because Inneth.... i like you a lot and you do some great things for the game, ...
Right back at ya. I think we all want the same end goal here.
(Not trying to derail this great thread. Carry on.)
- I
TK-421
BURGERM
Re: Events and you!
02/22/2020 05:39 PM CST
Hasn't the consent on necro's changed? As it should? I play one every now and again, and while it is definitely not my main, I do enjoy the little guy. But I can state clearly and loudly that whatever MY necro character does is absolutely NONE of anyone else's business unless they feel like paying my $40.00 subscription fee. If someone were to come harass my guy while minding his own business hunting just because of their own outdated rp style I would have a huge issue with that. I maintain a closed pvp stance on him as I am just in the realms to have a good time, not look for someone to compare epeen's with. RP is great and lot's of fun at times, but if someone elses rp literally intrudes on, and inconveniences the time I pay to be in the realms then that person needs a vacation
SASSERSASS
Re: Events and you!
02/22/2020 06:12 PM CST
At the risk of derailing the intended conversation further...
>>"Empaths do not exist solely to heal other player characters.
Clerics do not exist solely to raise other player characters.
Likewise, necromancers do not exist solely to be your adversary."
While this is true, there is never a moment during these characters' existences post-guild induction where they are not Empaths, Clerics, or Necromancers. These are more than just professions. When you are inducted to these guilds, you are permanently altered, at the very least, on a physiological level. It's not the same thing as a job you clock in and out of. A Necromancer is, in fact, a Necromancer 100% of the time, whether or not he/she is actively engaging in Necromancy, if that makes sense. A Necromancer peacefully eating toast and reading the newspaper is still a Necromancer. Just like how an Empath who is not making use of empathy is still an Empath and a Cleric not performing devotional rituals is still a Cleric.
At any rate, I'll try to return this on topic by saying to Inneth that I understand what you're trying to say. It's absolutely any Necromancer player's right to pursue story lines that do not revolve around that character's state of being a Necromancer. But that state of Necromancy is always a thing, and it is also within the right of other characters, PCs or NPCs, to respond to that Necromancer's state of being appropriately, so long as they do so within consent policy and with an eye toward good-faith roleplaying.
>>"Empaths do not exist solely to heal other player characters.
Clerics do not exist solely to raise other player characters.
Likewise, necromancers do not exist solely to be your adversary."
While this is true, there is never a moment during these characters' existences post-guild induction where they are not Empaths, Clerics, or Necromancers. These are more than just professions. When you are inducted to these guilds, you are permanently altered, at the very least, on a physiological level. It's not the same thing as a job you clock in and out of. A Necromancer is, in fact, a Necromancer 100% of the time, whether or not he/she is actively engaging in Necromancy, if that makes sense. A Necromancer peacefully eating toast and reading the newspaper is still a Necromancer. Just like how an Empath who is not making use of empathy is still an Empath and a Cleric not performing devotional rituals is still a Cleric.
At any rate, I'll try to return this on topic by saying to Inneth that I understand what you're trying to say. It's absolutely any Necromancer player's right to pursue story lines that do not revolve around that character's state of being a Necromancer. But that state of Necromancy is always a thing, and it is also within the right of other characters, PCs or NPCs, to respond to that Necromancer's state of being appropriately, so long as they do so within consent policy and with an eye toward good-faith roleplaying.
TK-421
Re: Events and you!
02/22/2020 06:33 PM CST
>> These are more than just professions. When you are inducted to these guilds, you are permanently altered, at the very least, on a physiological level. It's not the same thing as a job you clock in and out of. A Necromancer is, in fact, a Necromancer 100% of the time, whether or not he/she is actively engaging in Necromancy, if that makes sense.
It does, and you point is well articulated and received. Moreso than mine, which I'm glad you discerned from my last response.
I'm right there with Rifkinn: it should be hard to be a necromancer.
>> ... and it is also within the right of other characters, PCs or NPCs, to respond to that Necromancer's state of being appropriately, so long as they do so within consent policy and with an eye toward good-faith roleplaying.
Good-faith roleplaying -- there's the term I was looking for, right there.
- I
It does, and you point is well articulated and received. Moreso than mine, which I'm glad you discerned from my last response.
I'm right there with Rifkinn: it should be hard to be a necromancer.
>> ... and it is also within the right of other characters, PCs or NPCs, to respond to that Necromancer's state of being appropriately, so long as they do so within consent policy and with an eye toward good-faith roleplaying.
Good-faith roleplaying -- there's the term I was looking for, right there.
- I
ELWYNN
Re: Events and you!
02/23/2020 07:41 AM CST
After listening to everyone's view on Events, I think it would be a good idea for there to be more global events that make people want to work together instead of just pitting one guild or one faction against another. Make enemies that are pretty much the common foe of every PC.
LOCUTIS1
Re: Events and you!
02/23/2020 08:19 AM CST
>>After listening to everyone's view on Events, I think it would be a good idea for there to be more global events that make people want to work together instead of just pitting one guild or one faction against another. Make enemies that are pretty much the common foe of every PC
My apologies in singling your comment out, its not my intention to try to put you personally on show.
But this is the very thing i do not want.
Necromancy has been that common evil for so long im tired of events revolving around that, The Elpalzi event was the common bad guy. Every vanilla invasion is the common baddie that we band together against.
I said it before in an earlier post and other people have stated it, but an obvious choice could be something that involves Provinces, or i would like to see something that involves races. Or even something like the Gypsies or an Elven clan. Something you can join or have an allegiance to.
Something where we pick a side. or both sides, or no side.
Rifkinn
PURHEART
Re: Events and you!
02/23/2020 01:45 PM CST
>>Hasn't the consent on necro's changed? As it should? I play one every now and again, and while it is definitely not my main, I do enjoy the little guy. But I can state clearly and loudly that whatever MY necro character does is absolutely NONE of anyone else's business unless they feel like paying my $40.00 subscription fee. If someone were to come harass my guy while minding his own business hunting just because of their own outdated rp style I would have a huge issue with that. I maintain a closed pvp stance on him as I am just in the realms to have a good time, not look for someone to compare epeen's with. RP is great and lot's of fun at times, but if someone elses rp literally intrudes on, and inconveniences the time I pay to be in the realms then that person needs a vacation<<
Hate to inform you (& I could be wrong if things have changed recently) but you wont be able to keep that PvP closed once you start circling. You will be forced into at minimum a Guarded stance at some point, I just dont remember when. If its when the gods forsake you & you can not get favors anymore, or if you choose which way your necro is going ie perverse, philosopher, etc..
And it becomes others business if you become like some of the bigger necros out there that decide to rp "evil", mind I'm not saying you will do that.
I agree with you in a way, I have both lil necros & a "bigger" (around 100 or so), I try to stay away from others, I dont flaunt that they are necros, but my rp has always been they are not evil so they tend to be recluses.
This is to avoid "having others in my business", I dont need them to be known, my main does enough for all of my clan. ;-P
Hate to inform you (& I could be wrong if things have changed recently) but you wont be able to keep that PvP closed once you start circling. You will be forced into at minimum a Guarded stance at some point, I just dont remember when. If its when the gods forsake you & you can not get favors anymore, or if you choose which way your necro is going ie perverse, philosopher, etc..
And it becomes others business if you become like some of the bigger necros out there that decide to rp "evil", mind I'm not saying you will do that.
I agree with you in a way, I have both lil necros & a "bigger" (around 100 or so), I try to stay away from others, I dont flaunt that they are necros, but my rp has always been they are not evil so they tend to be recluses.
This is to avoid "having others in my business", I dont need them to be known, my main does enough for all of my clan. ;-P
TK-421
Re: Events and you!
02/23/2020 01:49 PM CST
>> Hate to inform you (& I could be wrong if things have changed recently) but you wont be able to keep that PvP closed once you start circling. You will be forced into at minimum a Guarded stance at some point, I just dont remember when.
This is no longer correct:
http://forums.play.net/forums/13/122/930/view/158
- I
This is no longer correct:
http://forums.play.net/forums/13/122/930/view/158
- I
LEELO83
Re: Events and you!
02/23/2020 03:48 PM CST
>> Hate to inform you (& I could be wrong if things have changed recently) but you wont be able to keep that PvP closed once you start circling. You will be forced into at minimum a Guarded stance at some point, I just dont remember when. If its when the gods forsake you & you can not get favors anymore, or if you choose which way your necro is going ie perverse, philosopher, etc..
As much as some of us don't agree with it, a Necromancer can now be "Closed" from circle 1 all the way to 200 if they want. Personally I feel that it was a "bad" change, if the intent of Necromancer was to be a "hard mode", this effectively removed that.
As much as some of us don't agree with it, a Necromancer can now be "Closed" from circle 1 all the way to 200 if they want. Personally I feel that it was a "bad" change, if the intent of Necromancer was to be a "hard mode", this effectively removed that.
PURHEART
Re: Events and you!
02/23/2020 07:31 PM CST
As I said I could be wrong, I havent logged into any of my necros in several months now so hadnt looked.
Thank you for the post telling me otherwise, so now I can go close my necros then. :)
Thank you for the post telling me otherwise, so now I can go close my necros then. :)
JULIAN
Re: Events and you!
03/29/2020 03:21 PM CDT
I know I'm very late to this thread, but I hope it's not too late to put some comments in. I really appreciate that this discussion was opened up!
Things I would like to see more of:
1. Run more events that involve coordination challenges.
A good example of what I have in mind were the Akul'tiz War Totems.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Obeliscal_Akul%27tiz_war_totem_ostentatiously_carved_from_dark_golden_iroko
The totems would roll into an area and start to chime - one warning chime, then one dangerous chime, on a cycle. On the dangerous chime anyone in the room would be thrown out of it with a bad head wound, and two of those were generally fatal. The totem had to be attacked repeatedly by players to be destroyed, and while that was going on there were invasion creatures spawning and lots of general mayhem.
The totems created enemy strong points during the invasions that absolutely had to be dealt with, and dealing with them required coordination. Some people would focus on attacking the totem, some people would focus on suppressing the invasion creatures, some people would act as group leaders to time the chimes and evacuate people before the danger chime, some people would act as draggers to get stragglers out of the way, some people would run Triage for the dead and wounded. It was messy and often chaotic, and it was (at least for me) insanely fun. What made it fun, IMO, was that whether we succeeded depended on our skill as players as much as on the individual skills of our characters.
To me, in general, DR is at its best when it's challenging a player's ability to play more than their character's ability to perform.
2. Give the players pride of place.
An MMO needs to set limits on its players, I agree. But I think that the less it is pointed out to players that they are not the prime movers in their world, the more engaging events are going to be. Any time an event can answer the question "Here's why YOU need to be doing this, why YOU are the BEST HOPE to deal with whatever thing is going down", I think the event is going to be more satisfying.
By way of example:
Why does that noble need PCs to do the thing? Maybe they, locally, don't have the muscle to get the thing done and need some exceptional people with a particular set of skills - even though, as a global limit, it's strictly true that "The Nobles" as a group can muster overwhelming force compared to any group of players. That puts the players out front without upending the world.
Why does Guild Leader Gauthus need his/her PC members for the thing, even though by cannon he has access to power and resources far beyond what the players can match? Maybe the explanation is that being able to mobilize the PCs constitutes a big part of that pull. The answer to "Why do you need us when you can just pull in the big guns?" is "That's what I'm doing", making the players important without making them all important.
To me, that feeling of being important to the plot, of being a mover, makes things much more satisfying and makes me more willing to buy into whatever is going on. My character can never be Geralt of Rivia but he can be Mazrian of Leth Deriel and you guys, I think, can make that feel almost as good by paying attention to the above.
Mazrian
Things I would like to see more of:
1. Run more events that involve coordination challenges.
A good example of what I have in mind were the Akul'tiz War Totems.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Obeliscal_Akul%27tiz_war_totem_ostentatiously_carved_from_dark_golden_iroko
The totems would roll into an area and start to chime - one warning chime, then one dangerous chime, on a cycle. On the dangerous chime anyone in the room would be thrown out of it with a bad head wound, and two of those were generally fatal. The totem had to be attacked repeatedly by players to be destroyed, and while that was going on there were invasion creatures spawning and lots of general mayhem.
The totems created enemy strong points during the invasions that absolutely had to be dealt with, and dealing with them required coordination. Some people would focus on attacking the totem, some people would focus on suppressing the invasion creatures, some people would act as group leaders to time the chimes and evacuate people before the danger chime, some people would act as draggers to get stragglers out of the way, some people would run Triage for the dead and wounded. It was messy and often chaotic, and it was (at least for me) insanely fun. What made it fun, IMO, was that whether we succeeded depended on our skill as players as much as on the individual skills of our characters.
To me, in general, DR is at its best when it's challenging a player's ability to play more than their character's ability to perform.
2. Give the players pride of place.
An MMO needs to set limits on its players, I agree. But I think that the less it is pointed out to players that they are not the prime movers in their world, the more engaging events are going to be. Any time an event can answer the question "Here's why YOU need to be doing this, why YOU are the BEST HOPE to deal with whatever thing is going down", I think the event is going to be more satisfying.
By way of example:
Why does that noble need PCs to do the thing? Maybe they, locally, don't have the muscle to get the thing done and need some exceptional people with a particular set of skills - even though, as a global limit, it's strictly true that "The Nobles" as a group can muster overwhelming force compared to any group of players. That puts the players out front without upending the world.
Why does Guild Leader Gauthus need his/her PC members for the thing, even though by cannon he has access to power and resources far beyond what the players can match? Maybe the explanation is that being able to mobilize the PCs constitutes a big part of that pull. The answer to "Why do you need us when you can just pull in the big guns?" is "That's what I'm doing", making the players important without making them all important.
To me, that feeling of being important to the plot, of being a mover, makes things much more satisfying and makes me more willing to buy into whatever is going on. My character can never be Geralt of Rivia but he can be Mazrian of Leth Deriel and you guys, I think, can make that feel almost as good by paying attention to the above.
Mazrian
