<<Once you figure out recipes, it does come down to just "make me a x-weight y". But the math, ultimately, is fun.

And people are still coming up with new caps at different weights. As opposed to just a new cap with a new wood.

I started out as an armor forger with my paladin who also had a high forging factor for edged weapons so I got into weapons a bit. I then rolled up a barbarian and got him to 100th and forged weapons. Then I bought a 150th barb and had him for a while, and now I have another barb that I've taken to 124th so far.

Because of the "secrecy" of mixes, I did most of my own work and experimentation. My goal as an armor forger was to come up with mixes that would yield the same exact pieces that Relayer used to have advertised on his dark anvil web site I think it was... way back when. I wrote an excel spreadsheet to help me with that, so the experimenting went a bit quicker and was easier to take notes on.

Weapon forging is an entirely different animal than armor forging. In armor forging, the mix doesn't matter as much, only the final weight of the goods that went into the plate or chain. If the weight is the same, the stats are usually the same. Weapons are much more tricky.

I haven't spent the amount of time experimenting with weapon forging that I did with armor forging, but I've got a better understanding of the process than probably anybody in TF. I just hope when I go back to prime in the near future (changed jobs, no longer work 80+ hours a week so I might actually have some ATK time in prime) I might get one of the forgers there to mix me up a nice blade or two, soooooo...

If you're a forger in prime and would like some nice armor or weapon mixes, just let me know, I'm happy to share. I figure the time is running out on the current forging system, so keeping stuff "secret" isn't going to do anybody any good in a short little while.

Even if I had my paladin and barbarian over on the prime side, I probably wouldn't forge that much as a money making venture. It's too time consuming, and ATK time in prime is too precious to me to have it spent in the forge. It's been easy enough for me to set up AFK mixing and pounding scripts in TF and just let them go for hours, but that's kind of... illegal in prime.. lol.

I hope everyone starts seeing more "supply" filling the "demand" and maybe some prices will drop a bit on some forged goods. Enjoy.


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<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

The issue I have with mixing (aside from the annoying downtimes) is that most of the best items were made via bugs. The system was made so complex that it was riddled with bugs. On top of that, rare metals were originally available, but the supply has been cut off completely. You'll never make anything as good as the early days of forging. And if you do figure out some cool trick, it's most likely a bug.

Compression is stupid. I'd like zinc to do x, gold to do y, iron z, steel a, etc. While this is true to a minor degree right now, the bottom line is that most mixes are mostly steel with compression or dust for weight. Boring.

And then there's the horribly designed armor fitting which was never revisited (tweaking this would have been very easy). Or ungrindable weapons. Or crappy templates.

To be honest, I think a complete rewrite is a mistake but if that's what it takes, let's do it!

Well, I traded my 50 stone bastie mix for the 54 stone bastie mix that supposedly ends up with severe/severe for HE and 2HE, but of the 4 ingots I made, I broke 3 in the pounding, and the 4th one broke on the first grind attempt. Now I'm going to have to do some experimenting to see if I can come up with my own mix. LOL. Here's my pertinent forging factors for reference:

Light Edged:
600.4
Medium Edged:
616.9
Heavy Edged:
657.9
Twohanded Edged:
655.9

Only 435 in mech lore, and just over 700 each in HE and 2HE.


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<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

<<You don't need a degree. It's rather simple math.

Still need to figure out the cypher. So although you don't need a degree your still blind for a while.

<<The issue I have with mixing (aside from the annoying downtimes) is that most of the best items were made via bugs. The system was made so complex that it was riddled with bugs. On top of that, rare metals were originally available, but the supply has been cut off completely. You'll never make anything as good as the early days of forging. And if you do figure out some cool trick, it's most likely a bug.

Truth. Water ingots/Bronze Ingots/Grinding without losing on a stat (which should have been a feature.)

<<Compression is stupid. I'd like zinc to do x, gold to do y, iron z, steel a, etc. While this is true to a minor degree right now, the bottom line is that most mixes are mostly steel with compression or dust for weight. Boring.

It is all boring. Compression shouldn't exist and the thing that bugs me the most is that alot of these terms have to be explained the first few times because players have to make up terms. E.g. Forging Factor (made up doesn't exist fyi), Compression actually i think those are the only two terms we made up that we use.

<<And then there's the horribly designed armor fitting which was never revisited (tweaking this would have been very easy). Or ungrindable weapons. Or crappy templates.

Armor forging was ALWAYS an afterthought. Don't care what they have said about that. They never finished the system properly and then there was no champion to continue development for it. Again the one thing about DR that has plagued the past was that there just wasn't enough development to keep pace with expansion of the game. Today things seem to be catching up but like all things its a waiting game.

<<To be honest, I think a complete rewrite is a mistake but if that's what it takes, let's do it!

I think a complete rewrite is necessary. To bring "rare" metals back into the fold, to expand the templates and to fundamentally change the processes of forging/smithing.

>>I think a complete rewrite is necessary. To bring "rare" metals back into the fold, to expand the templates and to fundamentally change the processes of forging/smithing. <<

^This.

And yes, please send me a copy of the 54 stone mix you have. I think I've figured out why I had trouble with the one I was using, but I'll do some experimenting and come up with a solution. Thanks.


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<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

>>Well, I traded my 50 stone bastie mix for the 54 stone bastie mix that supposedly ends up with severe/severe for HE and 2HE, but of the 4 ingots I made, I broke 3 in the pounding, and the 4th one broke on the first grind attempt. Now I'm going to have to do some experimenting to see if I can come up with my own mix. LOL. Here's my pertinent forging factors for reference:

If you want me to try any with Ach let me know, can't remember his skills exactly off hand but HE and 2HE are 850-900, LE is around 800 IIRC and ME is around 1050

>The pessimistic side of me beleives that if it is pure rank based, then it will be like snore-bow-carving in which the bought trash (sorry mods) login in plat-farm the capped item market

Not like that doesn't happen with armor and weapon forging, already.

<<>The pessimistic side of me beleives that if it is pure rank based, then it will be like snore-bow-carving in which the bought trash (sorry mods) login in plat-farm the capped item market

<<Not like that doesn't happen with armor and weapon forging, already.

After some more thought, the real problem here is that there is no middle market. There is storebought, and there is capped. I wouldn't expect any new creation system itself to fix an economy problem.

<<Have you read about the new system at all?

Which iteration?

Seriously, who is going to buy a item halfway between storebought and capped if they can afford capped?

>>Which iteration?

All the iterations speak of a middle market.

>>Seriously, who is going to buy a item halfway between storebought and capped if they can afford capped?

Probably no one unless they're trying to support an up and coming forger but not everyone can afford capped items and the price of capped items might increase under the new system, especially since we have no idea what the cap will be and how many ranks it will take to get there. Not to mention that 1 forger won't be able to cap everything like they can currently.

>>Hide and Rmel were 50th at just about the exact same time. Granted, I play less than a lot of other folks, but Rmel is mid 80s right now. It's just an interesting comparison for me to see. Just thought I'd throw that out there.<<

I believe you actually went to celpezes ahead of me while I was still in bristle back peccs in rossman's, but since I've been in celpeze and now super celps, I've been circling about every 3rd day or as soon as I can gain those 6 ranks in primary weapon.

There is a HUGE difference when you're able to script 24/7 forever. I'll hit 150th in about another 90 days I think, but it will probably take Rmel at least another 12 if not 24 months or more to hit 150th in prime.

There's no real way to make any comparisons between a prime character and a TF character. If someone played for 8 hours of ATK time per day in prime, then it would stand to reason that advancement would take 3 times as long as someone who played in TF. I've been playing Hide for exactly 16 months today, and he's 124th circle with just over 200 total ranks to gain between primary and secondary weapon for 150th.

Now that I've got a little more time ATK, I've taken steps to rejoin the darkside in prime where I will be a n00b all over again. Hide will continue to script 24/7, but my 150th moonie and my 100th empath in TF will suddenly turn into... low level characters in prime... I might actually enjoy it now that I have a bit of time to play again.



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<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

>>So is it possible that my weapons could have improved stats if I continue to search for a better 48 stone claymore mix?<<

Even though different mixes may result in the same final weight of 48 stones, the mix itself and the different ingredients play a part in the weapon's stats, so yes... continuing to search/experiment with different mixes will yield different results.

Even though nickel and copper slugs weigh the same, if you substitute copper for nickel, you'll get different results on your weapons where you wouldn't get different results with armor.


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<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>

You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.

Solomon

You guys are all making an assumption based on existing systems, namely that all grades of any item will take more or less the same amount of time. Bows, regardless of wood, take more or less the same amount of time. Same for leathers, armor and forged weapons.

If non-capped item can be made in significantly less time than a capped one, the market may deem it valuable.

If a "capped" item takes an hour of solid work, and a mid-range item 30 minutes... who knows?

---

Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares

<<You guys are all making an assumption based on existing systems, namely that all grades of any item will take more or less the same amount of time.

A valid point, Caraamon, from the creator p-o-v, but the buyer doesn't give a rat how long it took, how many ranks/skill it takes, or whatever math/system knowledge it takes... they want the capped.

>No one even tries to make any of these things, the current system discourages people who can't cap from making stuff currently. All of these systems are going to change as wellI think that the new system will change that.

There actually is a small market for this kind of thing. Seg caps forged ME weapons and javelins, but as a cleric does not yet have the skill to grind them to the typical "barbarian cap". Therefore, I do market capped "preground" ME weapons. Sell ME weapons for about 3 plat apiece, typically they have a little more impact and a little less puncture/slice. Some people like 'em, and I do sell them cheap. Seg can also make "superior" serpent cowls (which are pretty popular) and "superior" rock troll leathers (less popular, but nice for people that don't want to use Haven hunting leathers early in life).

The javelins get dropped on trader tables usually, but the other stuff does have a word-of-mouth type of market (only word-of-mouth because I don't advertise heavily and have no interest spending my life in the forge or sewing together skins). I'm not making the big bucks like forgers that are barbs and cap every weapon known to the world, but I'm not surprised if I make 15-30 plat in a week from my stuff. Within another 30-50 ranks each of HP and LP I should be capping those accessories too.

I guess if somebody reads this that's interested in the things I do, drop me an AIM at darpiseck16 or look Seg up in game.


Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia

"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields

No worries, forging 2.0 will be released in 2019.

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Vinjince Rexem'lor

>however if a single blade took an hour to make than I could see the price be way way higher than it is now....like several hundered plat compared to the 10-30 plat of today.

That's just about how long it takes to make a single blade right now. 1 hour.

>>I don't think that's how it's going to work. Well, not exactly.

I'm sure there will be other factors involved...I didn't say 2000 mech.
I could see needing something like 1000 mech to cap.....my thoughts are that it could possibly go on a curve (just like stats), where each rank weighs less in the equation, so you can get to almost capped alot sooner than 1000 and then slowly get better from there.
...I never heard any of that from anyone, it was just a thought.


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