I like it- though I might shorten it to Anathama



Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.

I wasn't around when the list came out, so here are my thoughts about a month late:

Will the Infusion functionality of Centering (being able to get to nimbly+ balanced) be going away or will it remain in a similar fashion to how SoL's Infusion functionality is staying?

As far as Leaping Curses, I don't mind the name but I do like the idea of tying it into Harawep -- maybe Schemes of the Widowmaker or Hag's Lightning. If we're keeping it general I also like Anathema.

I love the list in general but can see problems going up against NMUs or something with high MR or multiple opponents. That said, this is what I'll be looking for in the techniques and AP spells we also get to choose from to help complement our strengths and fill in our weaknesses:

-Metamagic
--Recognizing other spells/spellcasters/harnessed mana
--Getting casts off quicker/more efficiently
--Managing mana for cyclic spells via cambrinth/attunement
--Increasing attunement regen
--Boosting PP skill/available mana/room mana
--An Unleash-type spell to work with spell scrolls and other magical devices
-Spirit effects
-Passive physical/magical defenses (MAF, SOD and dispel protection for example)
-Weapon/TM boosts
-Discipline/Intelligence/Stamina boosts
-Aligned spell prep, dark/Asketi for Cazvelu in particular

Really sucks that we're losing the first two communes, but I'd say the spell list makes up for it. As far as what to do with Eluned's First Commune the above list is a good place to start :) I wouldn't mind seeing the mana boost broken off of Meraud's Commune and added to Eluned's (even if it makes more sense for Meraud as the god of magic) since I'd like to take advantage of it while hunting.

I also think it'd make sense to swap the two Eluned's quests and make the second one where you're freefalling an early Faenella quest (have her wrens set you down or something): "The patron of adventure-seeking youths, Faenella looks favorably on those who bear the seeds of adventure in their hearts." Keep the first quest where you turn into a dolphin as the 15th circle jalbreth balm one.

If we keep them the same then it always bugs me that I use holy water for the hearth goddess and incense for the water goddess...maybe switch those reagents to be appropriate for their gods if it isn't too much of an effort.


~Thilan

Bear in mind that the core pantheon of the game has 39 gods. If we add every random entity PCs want to worship as gods, we easily breach 50.

I have an interest in keeping stuff generalized above the level of individual gods when I can, because the plurality of gods in this setting is always threatening to make anything related to them spiral further and further out of control.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>Soul Shield: Basic Warding. Same.

Psychic Shield is going to "provide protection against supernatural effects that are resisted by Will, magic or otherwise," which makes sense in keeping its WvW protection, but since Spirit is going to be an attack instead of a defense how is Soul Shield going to work?


~Thilan

>>It is going to provide protection against contested spells with Spirit as their offense type, as well as anything that inflicts direct spiritual damage.

Even though other guilds will use Spirit debilitators (which is great), it still seems like SoS is going to be super-nichey. It's protecting from 1/6 of the possible debilitators (and no non-magic ones) while something that works off of the defensive side (like Psychic Shield) will protect against 1/3 of the contests. Looking through the spell lists that have been posted, SoS will protect against 10 debilitators and spirit attacks while PSY works on 17 -- that's nearly twice as much. I think it need something more to make it worthwhile, especially since it's likely that we'll have more spells & techniques than slots (which is also great). Can we add in another protection like Mind or Charm or Fear to make it more versatile (and bring it up to 1/3 protection)? Will SoS prevent the caster soul drain from spells like AE or Meraud's Cry? I think in M3 barriers will also hinder your own casting, so will SoS hinder outgoing spells less and protect from incoming spells better since it's more of a niche spell?


~Thilan

If we've gotten any of the quest spells (Rezz, MF and FoU), will we be required to retake them in M3? I'm wondering because I don't plan on getting Rezz or MF any time soon (if at all), but I'd still like to check out the quests and the lore behind them. Could I conceivably to that before the spell wipe and not have my hands tied after it?


~Cazvelu
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."

I remember this as well, but I can't confirm it. I can tell you in the last major rewrite that moon mages did not have to redo the quests for stellar spells, for a short period of time their was a grimoire with the spells available that you could just read and learn them. Cleric resurrection took on a completely new face so the quest had to be done(since it was completely new mechanic at that point). I also remember it not being released with Magic 2.0 release but I did not have a cleric at the time so my memory about that is fuzzy at best.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton

Idle curiosity, why wouldn't you want to keep MF?

---

TG, TG, GL, et al.

Couple questions about Cleric magic...

Soul Shield - Will this protect against our own spells (ex. Soul Attrition, Meraud's Cry, Aesrela Everild)? Seems like it would be neat to buffer the spirit loss from these spells.

Divine Radiance - With this spell not doing any damage, why is it still going to be based on TM? Wouldn't it make more sense to move to to Debilitation and make it a stat contest?

Harm Horde - Why does it suck? It may be that I'm just too low to use it, but it just seems like such a waste. The damage doesn't seem terribly high and both the pole and missile pulses usually serve no purpose (for me). It seems that there is no reason to use this over FoU. I would love to see a remake of this - maybe something similar to Rimefang, but undead only?

As far as infusion... If there will continue to be spells that do not stack duration on recast, then it would be neat to see if it could increase the duration on buffs before they fade. Basically Clerics stuffing more mana into exisiting spell patterns.

I know this post is super old, but these are the observations I've finally come up with after playing my Cleric a fair amount. :)

>Soul Shield
It should protect from Soul Attrition, Chill Spirit, and other sundry spirit assaults. (I don't think this will include Aesrela Everild.)
>Divine Radiance
Not sure, perhaps it will be keeping it's Undead damaging ability or perhaps because it has a damage amplification attribute being added?
>Harm Horde
An interesting spell, the damage does seem to be low (sometimes). It's kind of unused though possibly due to the scarcity of actually needing it to hit multiple targets (beyond four) aside from invasions (of undead/cursed) where I like to tandem it up with FoU for AoE glory.

>>Soul Shield - Will this protect against our own spells (ex. Soul Attrition, Meraud's Cry, Aesrela Everild)?

Yes, yes, no. It won't affect spells that need spirit as fuel (AE and Eylhaar's Feast).

>>Divine Radiance - With this spell not doing any damage, why is it still going to be based on TM? Wouldn't it make more sense to move to to Debilitation and make it a stat contest?

Since we've already added non-damaging TM support for Empath spells, it made sense for Divine Radiance. Variety is also good, but it may change.

>>Harm Horde - Why does it suck?

Because the game's AoE design philosophy has fluctuated over the years, and HH happened to be released at a time when it was decided, for one reason or another, that new AoEs should suck. It's going to be better.

>>As far as infusion... If there will continue to be spells that do not stack duration on recast, then it would be neat to see if it could increase the duration on buffs before they fade. Basically Clerics stuffing more mana into exisiting spell patterns.

The general idea here will be supported by the new Osrel Meraud. You can, basically, keep your buffs going by infusing/recharging the orb.

GM Grejuva

Ok the hope for harm horde is GREAT thank you