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>> Athleticism (needs a better name)
Basic Augmentation. Athletics boost. This is Climb + Swim
Path of the Wayfinder
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
FALLENSHADOWS
SAUVA
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
10/22/2010 07:58 PM CDT
Will we be getting the mana boost part of compost in some other form, or is boosting mana not a magic tert kind of thing?
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
ROYALHEIR
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
11/06/2010 03:15 AM CDT
Does Claws of the Cougars boost to melee mean pole ranged weapons too?
ROYALHEIR
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
12/01/2010 05:45 PM CST
Still curious if its being planned for pole ranged versions of weapons will be effected too. just trying to clarify wording. Per COTC
RALTIR
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
02/24/2011 11:49 PM CST
I know this is late, but hopefully not too late to help, if possible.
For Boon, my problem with it as it currently stands is that it's difficult to use. Currently it seems to cause periodic contests with all natural creatures not already engaged, and depending on the outcome the creature is calmed for some amount of time. The problem is the period of calming and the frequency don't always line up well enough for it to do what it's supposed to do. For the rewrite, I'd make it periodic contests, but have the success/failure of the contest last for the -same- period (i.e. until the next contest or the end of the spell). I'd make the mana efficiency of aiding you in the contest dependent on creature type (so intelligent creatures with the same defense would require more mana), and also on the range (so pole range creatures would require more mana than missile, and engaged creatures would still be immune). I'd make the 'period' a constant amount of time that is less than average time to advance to a new range increment. Under these changes, I can imagine this spell actually keeping extra creatures off of you, while you're training defenses, and/or easing your escape if you have it up but get in trouble. One additional ability that would be handy is to end the spell early. I don't know how feasible that is, though.
For the Athletics boost spell, I would like to echo the suggestion of having it also include the water breathing aspect of CAIS (presumably making it a 2 spell slot spell, instead of 1). I'd call it something like Adaptation, Animalisitc Adaptation, Feral Adaptation, Natural Adaptation, Natural Form, Feral Form, or Animalistic Form. I see both of these spells as causing physical changes to the target which causes them to improve at getting where they need to go in the same way an animal might do so, which is why I think a name like one of these would be fitting.
I'm happy to see multi-hit and aoe TM spells, available now. However, I'm a little disappointed to see EC and DEV still looking like they do. Wasn't removing such redundancy part of what was improving in Magic 3.0? Since everyone already has an Introductory Targeted single-target direct damage spell in energy bolt, why do we even need EC? And isn't DEV pretty much the same only better, again? Currently, this doesn't seem to live up to your claim that, "If an effect is on a spell, it will be at capped strength for your guild." in my opinion. I don't know how the WM guild is handling their redundant TM trees, but perhaps we could use a similar structure. I do recall people joking, "Welcome to the WM guild." when we first got this tree. I also remember a GM say that our 3rd tier TM spell would be allowed to do something more interesting than just single target direct damage. I was disappointed at the time with that design, as it was a design already disdained by the WM guild. I'm hopeful that it can be changed to not feel like these are supposed to be "speed bump" spells.
Memory of Nature sounds very interesting, and considering the unique relationship between Rangers and nature could be very useful. Out of curiousity, can this push the wilderness rating of a room beyond the normal cap (and hence our bonus if we remain in that room long enough higher than the normal cap)?
Maybe I'm not clear on the difference, but shouldn't Blend be Utility rather than Augmentation?
I'm very excited to see how all of this turns out. Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts on it, and I hope my input is not too late to be considered.
TPO Raltir
For Boon, my problem with it as it currently stands is that it's difficult to use. Currently it seems to cause periodic contests with all natural creatures not already engaged, and depending on the outcome the creature is calmed for some amount of time. The problem is the period of calming and the frequency don't always line up well enough for it to do what it's supposed to do. For the rewrite, I'd make it periodic contests, but have the success/failure of the contest last for the -same- period (i.e. until the next contest or the end of the spell). I'd make the mana efficiency of aiding you in the contest dependent on creature type (so intelligent creatures with the same defense would require more mana), and also on the range (so pole range creatures would require more mana than missile, and engaged creatures would still be immune). I'd make the 'period' a constant amount of time that is less than average time to advance to a new range increment. Under these changes, I can imagine this spell actually keeping extra creatures off of you, while you're training defenses, and/or easing your escape if you have it up but get in trouble. One additional ability that would be handy is to end the spell early. I don't know how feasible that is, though.
For the Athletics boost spell, I would like to echo the suggestion of having it also include the water breathing aspect of CAIS (presumably making it a 2 spell slot spell, instead of 1). I'd call it something like Adaptation, Animalisitc Adaptation, Feral Adaptation, Natural Adaptation, Natural Form, Feral Form, or Animalistic Form. I see both of these spells as causing physical changes to the target which causes them to improve at getting where they need to go in the same way an animal might do so, which is why I think a name like one of these would be fitting.
I'm happy to see multi-hit and aoe TM spells, available now. However, I'm a little disappointed to see EC and DEV still looking like they do. Wasn't removing such redundancy part of what was improving in Magic 3.0? Since everyone already has an Introductory Targeted single-target direct damage spell in energy bolt, why do we even need EC? And isn't DEV pretty much the same only better, again? Currently, this doesn't seem to live up to your claim that, "If an effect is on a spell, it will be at capped strength for your guild." in my opinion. I don't know how the WM guild is handling their redundant TM trees, but perhaps we could use a similar structure. I do recall people joking, "Welcome to the WM guild." when we first got this tree. I also remember a GM say that our 3rd tier TM spell would be allowed to do something more interesting than just single target direct damage. I was disappointed at the time with that design, as it was a design already disdained by the WM guild. I'm hopeful that it can be changed to not feel like these are supposed to be "speed bump" spells.
Memory of Nature sounds very interesting, and considering the unique relationship between Rangers and nature could be very useful. Out of curiousity, can this push the wilderness rating of a room beyond the normal cap (and hence our bonus if we remain in that room long enough higher than the normal cap)?
Maybe I'm not clear on the difference, but shouldn't Blend be Utility rather than Augmentation?
I'm very excited to see how all of this turns out. Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts on it, and I hope my input is not too late to be considered.
TPO Raltir
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
03/08/2011 09:59 PM CST
>>However, I'm a little disappointed to see EC and DEV still looking like they do. Wasn't removing such redundancy part of what was improving in Magic 3.0? Since everyone already has an Introductory Targeted single-target direct damage spell in energy bolt, why do we even need EC? And isn't DEV pretty much the same only better, again? Currently, this doesn't seem to live up to your claim that, "If an effect is on a spell, it will be at capped strength for your guild." in my opinion.
The way this is working out for most guilds, is that one spell will be more accurate while the other has higher damage. No idea how this will relate to EC and Dev however.
Also, energy bolt is horribly mana inefficient and will not be suitable as a TM spell once you get past a certain point in magics.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
The way this is working out for most guilds, is that one spell will be more accurate while the other has higher damage. No idea how this will relate to EC and Dev however.
Also, energy bolt is horribly mana inefficient and will not be suitable as a TM spell once you get past a certain point in magics.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton
PBOMBARD
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
03/09/2011 05:19 AM CST
>The way this is working out for most guilds, is that one spell will be more accurate while the other has higher damage. No idea how this will relate to EC and Dev however.
IIRC this is how it already works for EC and DEV.
-pete
IIRC this is how it already works for EC and DEV.
-pete
RALTIR
Re: Ranger Magic 3.0
03/10/2011 08:26 PM CST
>>The way this is working out for most guilds, is that one spell will be more accurate while the other has higher damage. No idea how this will relate to EC and Dev however.
In this post:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Magic_3.0_Goals_-_1/16/2010_-_16:52:44
it sounds like they're trying to move away from what I'm talking about. Currently, EC and DEV are both cold damage (similar to how fire shard and fireball are both fire damage). The two forms of TM diversity mentioned are aesthetics ("dark" Rangers using the evil Devitalize spell, for example), and widgets (different types of damage, aoe, multi-hit, dfa). I thought, at one point, that the trade-off between multi-hit and single hit is going to involve accuracy versus damage potential as well. Though, I'm reading now, that targetting time will be involved in that balance.
I really don't see accuracy versus damage as being a very solid widget. It doesn't appear to be common practice for people these days to carry around multiple weapons of the same type (slicer, blunt, piercing) because one is more accurate and the other more damaging. I used to know people that would carry both a forester's bow (reduced rt) and a PC crafted bow (which seems analagous to the targetting time difference, I read about). However, most people used one or the other (which in my mind would be more analagous to the spells being in separate spell trees).
Also, the aesthetics differences ("dark" vs. "light") would be better expressed by EC and DEV in separate trees as well. Perhaps something along the lines of:
TM tree 1: "Light" in theme. Summoning manifestations of natural creatures to damage your enemies. Spells from the current list: Eagle's Cry (single), Plague of Scavengers (aoe).
TM tree 2: "Dark" in theme. Direct manipulation of creatures life energy (drains their vitality or decays their flesh). Spells from the current list: Devitalize (single), Compost (multi-shot).
Of course these tree's need not be "stand-alone", e.g. PoS might still require Swarm or HB. This layout might warrant updating the complexity and power of Compost to Advanced or Esoteric, so as to avoid 2 Basic TMs in the same tree. I wouldn't complain about some different damage types being thrown in the mix, somewhere in there, as well. For example, the decay that occurs in a rl compost heap generates a lot of heat, so maybe compost could do fire, instead of cold.
Would anyone with a good idea of how all of this might relate to EC and DEV under the new system care to comment on the plan for EC and DEV and/or these ideas?
In this post:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Magic_3.0_Goals_-_1/16/2010_-_16:52:44
it sounds like they're trying to move away from what I'm talking about. Currently, EC and DEV are both cold damage (similar to how fire shard and fireball are both fire damage). The two forms of TM diversity mentioned are aesthetics ("dark" Rangers using the evil Devitalize spell, for example), and widgets (different types of damage, aoe, multi-hit, dfa). I thought, at one point, that the trade-off between multi-hit and single hit is going to involve accuracy versus damage potential as well. Though, I'm reading now, that targetting time will be involved in that balance.
I really don't see accuracy versus damage as being a very solid widget. It doesn't appear to be common practice for people these days to carry around multiple weapons of the same type (slicer, blunt, piercing) because one is more accurate and the other more damaging. I used to know people that would carry both a forester's bow (reduced rt) and a PC crafted bow (which seems analagous to the targetting time difference, I read about). However, most people used one or the other (which in my mind would be more analagous to the spells being in separate spell trees).
Also, the aesthetics differences ("dark" vs. "light") would be better expressed by EC and DEV in separate trees as well. Perhaps something along the lines of:
TM tree 1: "Light" in theme. Summoning manifestations of natural creatures to damage your enemies. Spells from the current list: Eagle's Cry (single), Plague of Scavengers (aoe).
TM tree 2: "Dark" in theme. Direct manipulation of creatures life energy (drains their vitality or decays their flesh). Spells from the current list: Devitalize (single), Compost (multi-shot).
Of course these tree's need not be "stand-alone", e.g. PoS might still require Swarm or HB. This layout might warrant updating the complexity and power of Compost to Advanced or Esoteric, so as to avoid 2 Basic TMs in the same tree. I wouldn't complain about some different damage types being thrown in the mix, somewhere in there, as well. For example, the decay that occurs in a rl compost heap generates a lot of heat, so maybe compost could do fire, instead of cold.
Would anyone with a good idea of how all of this might relate to EC and DEV under the new system care to comment on the plan for EC and DEV and/or these ideas?
