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>Or searching the corpse with an extra roundtime to find more loot afterwards.
I am against this, simply because money inflation is already pretty bad. I'm not sure it needs to be made worse with another increase in loot.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
RAIST
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/13/2012 11:35 PM CDT
>>I am against this, simply because money inflation is already pretty bad. I'm not sure it needs to be made worse with another increase in loot.
I think 3.0 is going to solve this problem, too, at least to a large degree, by drastically slowing the pace of killing.
I think 3.0 is going to solve this problem, too, at least to a large degree, by drastically slowing the pace of killing.
NEELD
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/13/2012 11:58 PM CDT
Yeah, I am thinking using a thief ability to find more loot doesn't move the dial that much. Crafting purple drops left and right is a much bigger issue than the inflation out there right now.
Madigan
Madigan
RAIST
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/14/2012 12:02 AM CDT
>Yeah, I am thinking using a thief ability to find more loot doesn't move the dial that much.
Then what's the point?
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
Then what's the point?
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
SHADOW7988
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/14/2012 12:34 AM CDT
Personally I am not really sure it should be Thief only, just a bit of an RT for something that is a bit more thiefish.
Add a little reward, a bit of flair to looting.
Plus, it adds to the Thievery skill, which is one of the skills that needs more then oh well you can steal from shops and NPCs, and (maybe things changed but I wasn't getting skills from stealing from PCs) that's about it.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Add a little reward, a bit of flair to looting.
Plus, it adds to the Thievery skill, which is one of the skills that needs more then oh well you can steal from shops and NPCs, and (maybe things changed but I wasn't getting skills from stealing from PCs) that's about it.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/14/2012 12:55 AM CDT
>>Add a little reward, a bit of flair to looting.
Maybe a [very] rare material drop!
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
Maybe a [very] rare material drop!
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
DEFOL
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/14/2012 02:17 AM CDT
>I am against this, simply because money inflation is already pretty bad. I'm not sure it needs to be made worse with another increase in loot.
Just to get you up to speed, this is where it started:
>Disarming or unbalancing a creature with your rapid movements, pick-pocket a mob (even if it's just for a spare copper or some foragable item. Imagine stealing plovik leaves and rocks from goblins).
>- Volcanus
Its not about the loot itself, its about finding alternative ways to learn stealing. I was just suggesting the loot version because the straight up pick-pocketing would realistically look something like this:
You move in position to start stealing from Goblin.
Bob has just arrived.
Bob fires an arrow .. Goblin dead.
You haven't picked something to steal!
or
You manage to grab some Plovik leaves from Goblin and quickly pocket them.
Bob has noticed your attempt to steal from Goblin.
Bob gets extremely miffed!
Bob fires an arrow .. You're dead.
Just to get you up to speed, this is where it started:
>Disarming or unbalancing a creature with your rapid movements, pick-pocket a mob (even if it's just for a spare copper or some foragable item. Imagine stealing plovik leaves and rocks from goblins).
>- Volcanus
Its not about the loot itself, its about finding alternative ways to learn stealing. I was just suggesting the loot version because the straight up pick-pocketing would realistically look something like this:
You move in position to start stealing from Goblin.
Bob has just arrived.
Bob fires an arrow .. Goblin dead.
You haven't picked something to steal!
or
You manage to grab some Plovik leaves from Goblin and quickly pocket them.
Bob has noticed your attempt to steal from Goblin.
Bob gets extremely miffed!
Bob fires an arrow .. You're dead.
PHANT0MR0GUE
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/14/2012 08:46 AM CDT
>>I am against this, simply because money inflation is already pretty bad. I'm not sure it needs to be made worse with another increase in loot.
By this logic, then nothing should ever get done. Thieves are not the cause of money inflation, its skins along with gems/item loot from Critters. You are getting almost double the reward per creature. Skin worth 5 silver AND 5 silver in gems/coins.
Giving Thieves an extra few silver or the random rare gem is not going to break an already unstable system.
By this logic, then nothing should ever get done. Thieves are not the cause of money inflation, its skins along with gems/item loot from Critters. You are getting almost double the reward per creature. Skin worth 5 silver AND 5 silver in gems/coins.
Giving Thieves an extra few silver or the random rare gem is not going to break an already unstable system.
NEELD
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/15/2012 02:30 PM CDT
<<Then what's the point?
It was an idea to learn stealing. I don't think the extra loot was the goal.
Madigan
It was an idea to learn stealing. I don't think the extra loot was the goal.
Madigan
SHADOW7988
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/15/2012 05:02 PM CDT
I somewhat like the idea of some type of rare drop involved with it, for special types of critters or what not, in special places, whatever.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/15/2012 05:18 PM CDT
>>I somewhat like the idea of some type of rare drop involved with it, for special types of critters or what not, in special places, whatever.
Just make it an extra dip into the treasure system. No coins or gems, just a small % chance at additional loots like spell scrolls, a box, dashing critter fashion items, an herb, etc.
Just make it an extra dip into the treasure system. No coins or gems, just a small % chance at additional loots like spell scrolls, a box, dashing critter fashion items, an herb, etc.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/15/2012 05:51 PM CDT
I suspect that even if it resulted in worthless items 'a broken widget, a galston, etc.' people would use it. Just for a less painful way to learn stealing/thievery.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
NINEVAH1
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/15/2012 07:02 PM CDT
>>I suspect that even if it resulted in worthless items 'a broken widget, a galston, etc.' people would use it. Just for a less painful way to learn stealing/thievery.
I don't care if it gave me a pink dress every time. I'd use it if it taught Thievery.
I don't care if it gave me a pink dress every time. I'd use it if it taught Thievery.
CRITTERDASLT
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
04/30/2012 05:24 PM CDT
<<Then what's the point?
Uh, training one of the most boring and useless skills in the game isn't good enough?
You honestly tried to make the argument that if it yields something meaningful then it's OP and floods the market, but if it doesn't yield anything meaningful then it's pointless? There's no middle ground at all for you, nothing?
Uh, training one of the most boring and useless skills in the game isn't good enough?
You honestly tried to make the argument that if it yields something meaningful then it's OP and floods the market, but if it doesn't yield anything meaningful then it's pointless? There's no middle ground at all for you, nothing?
JRSCORPION
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
05/31/2012 04:28 PM CDT
I think the posted 3.0 reqs for Thievery/Stealth should be swapped. Upping the req for thievery means 1) people will demand additional ways to learn it as we have already seen in this thread, 2) a lot of Thieves will get a lot of grandfathered ranks which will tick off anyone who previously trained stealing (which is a bit of a challenge), 3) Non-thieves won't like the sudden increase in number of skilled pickpockets, 4) it forces Thieves into more of a cookie-cutter mold as opposed to now, where Thieves have the ability to decide to what extent they want to focus on stealing/thievery.
Finally, stealth is simply more important than thievery for everything from hunting to pvp and is used in almost every aspect of a Thief's training. The stealth req should definitely be higher than the thievery req.
Finally, stealth is simply more important than thievery for everything from hunting to pvp and is used in almost every aspect of a Thief's training. The stealth req should definitely be higher than the thievery req.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
05/31/2012 05:23 PM CDT
Aw. It's cute you think your input matters at this point.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
LHALLFIN
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/03/2012 12:38 PM CDT
>Aw. It's cute you think your input matters at this point.
You should seriously check yourself.
It was a player who suggested it in the first place.
And then a Dev that said its a possibility.
I would say that means input does totally matter.
>Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
At least you manage to get one thing right.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/03/2012 01:22 PM CDT
>At least you manage to get one thing right.
WOAH I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT ONE AND MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT PUT THAT AS MY SIG ON PURPOSE!
>Aw. It's cute you think your input matters at this point.
>You should seriously check yourself.
I think you took this personally, but I have no idea who you are. My point was that you are severely, extremely, late. Reqs are basically done. You're doing the equivalent of running into a bakers shop and asking that they make that a chocolate cake after it's gone into the oven.
Can things be tweaked? They probably will be. But it's late for a discussion about it until they actually come out, as seen by the copious number of responses to your post. And your timely response to mine.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
WOAH I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT ONE AND MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT PUT THAT AS MY SIG ON PURPOSE!
>Aw. It's cute you think your input matters at this point.
>You should seriously check yourself.
I think you took this personally, but I have no idea who you are. My point was that you are severely, extremely, late. Reqs are basically done. You're doing the equivalent of running into a bakers shop and asking that they make that a chocolate cake after it's gone into the oven.
Can things be tweaked? They probably will be. But it's late for a discussion about it until they actually come out, as seen by the copious number of responses to your post. And your timely response to mine.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
JRSCORPION
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/05/2012 07:41 PM CDT
>My point was that you are severely, extremely, late. Reqs are basically done. You're doing the equivalent of running into a bakers shop and asking that they make that a chocolate cake after it's gone into the oven.
You're probably right, because I hear 3.0 will be done soon.
And something as drastic and fundamentally paradigm-shifting as slightly adjusting circling reqs takes like, months if not years of development.
You're probably right, because I hear 3.0 will be done soon.
And something as drastic and fundamentally paradigm-shifting as slightly adjusting circling reqs takes like, months if not years of development.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/05/2012 07:53 PM CDT
This entire argument seems a bit silly, honestly...
>>Upping the req for thievery means 1) people will demand additional ways to learn it as we have already seen in this thread
The reason it is being named thievery is to make additional ways to learn it. Now it's not just stealing. So if people are asking for more stuff, "Yay!", because GMs want to make more stuff.
>>a lot of Thieves will get a lot of grandfathered ranks which will tick off anyone who previously trained stealing
Pretty much every person in the game is going to see something or other get grandfathered up. Getting upset over this is silly and I can't imagine the proper solution being "well, we'll lower the reqs!"
>>Non-thieves won't like the sudden increase in number of skilled pickpockets
Because this is a real issue people face right now.
>>it forces Thieves into more of a cookie-cutter mold as opposed to now, where Thieves have the ability to decide to what extent they want to focus on stealing/thievery
FINALLY, the real reason. You don't like training it, and would rather train stealth!
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
>>Upping the req for thievery means 1) people will demand additional ways to learn it as we have already seen in this thread
The reason it is being named thievery is to make additional ways to learn it. Now it's not just stealing. So if people are asking for more stuff, "Yay!", because GMs want to make more stuff.
>>a lot of Thieves will get a lot of grandfathered ranks which will tick off anyone who previously trained stealing
Pretty much every person in the game is going to see something or other get grandfathered up. Getting upset over this is silly and I can't imagine the proper solution being "well, we'll lower the reqs!"
>>Non-thieves won't like the sudden increase in number of skilled pickpockets
Because this is a real issue people face right now.
>>it forces Thieves into more of a cookie-cutter mold as opposed to now, where Thieves have the ability to decide to what extent they want to focus on stealing/thievery
FINALLY, the real reason. You don't like training it, and would rather train stealth!
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
JRSCORPION
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 12:48 AM CDT
>FINALLY, the real reason. You don't like training it, and would rather train stealth!
lol pureblade
lol pureblade
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 01:10 AM CDT
>>lol pureblade
Am I wrong? I feel comfortable viewing someone saying "some of us like training stealth more than thievery" as "I like training stealth more than thievery." You could be altruistic in what you're expressing and I'm just not properly recognizing it, but the "think of the people who like stealth more than thievery" mixed with the "and what of the people upset that people are getting the skill grandfathered to be at-circle for them" and "there is an unspoken contingent of players worried that Thieves are going to get grandfathered thievery ranks, ushering in a new wave of rampant pickpocketing" makes it all seem like a bit of an acrobatic argument for just not liking it.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
Am I wrong? I feel comfortable viewing someone saying "some of us like training stealth more than thievery" as "I like training stealth more than thievery." You could be altruistic in what you're expressing and I'm just not properly recognizing it, but the "think of the people who like stealth more than thievery" mixed with the "and what of the people upset that people are getting the skill grandfathered to be at-circle for them" and "there is an unspoken contingent of players worried that Thieves are going to get grandfathered thievery ranks, ushering in a new wave of rampant pickpocketing" makes it all seem like a bit of an acrobatic argument for just not liking it.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 01:30 AM CDT
Kindly address the points of a post without the snark at each other.
I know you can do it, don't make me pull this thread over.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
JRSCORPION
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 02:30 AM CDT
My Thief's been 150th for a while so worrying about what I personally need doesn't factor into it. Also, I've continued to train stealing after 150th. Thus the lol was at your inaccuracy on both counts.
I just happen to think that stealth is more important to Thieves than what I understand "thievery" covers as a skill. And keeping the thievery req lower than the stealth req preserves flexibility for Thieves to decide if they do or do not want to be stealy-type Thieves. I know Thieves is the name of the guild but that's pretty much an aesthetic choice; it's essentially the Rogue class and I don't believe thievery ought to be our mandated focus, your opinion may vary.
I just happen to think that stealth is more important to Thieves than what I understand "thievery" covers as a skill. And keeping the thievery req lower than the stealth req preserves flexibility for Thieves to decide if they do or do not want to be stealy-type Thieves. I know Thieves is the name of the guild but that's pretty much an aesthetic choice; it's essentially the Rogue class and I don't believe thievery ought to be our mandated focus, your opinion may vary.
DUPRE82
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 03:17 AM CDT
I picked the thief guild for the open endedness of the circling reqs. I enjoyed the general mischief I could cause with what I enjoyed doing. Having circle requirements to me are more of a guideline to what the guild wants, but never what you have to be. Thats also why dr is very good. Who cares what the reqs are after they are set? Train how you want and circle when you can.
The free stuff we are getting are a bonus. Keeping the openeness is more important then what any single person feels should be for the better.
The free stuff we are getting are a bonus. Keeping the openeness is more important then what any single person feels should be for the better.
DYMASCUS
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 10:37 AM CDT
>>I just happen to think that stealth is more important to Thieves than what I understand "thievery" covers as a skill. And keeping the thievery req lower than the stealth req preserves flexibility for Thieves to decide if they do or do not want to be stealy-type Thieves. I know Thieves is the name of the guild but that's pretty much an aesthetic choice; it's essentially the Rogue class and I don't believe thievery ought to be our mandated focus, your opinion may vary.
I'd have to agree with this. Not only for the reasons stated above, but also because just about everything a thief does involves stealth to some degree, so its a more versatile skill when compared to thievery. A thief that can't stay unseen is a dead thief (usually). I personally do not neglect stealing currently, its actually my #4 at the moment i believe, but what about the people that rolled a thief for the Assassin, not the klepto?
I'd have to agree with this. Not only for the reasons stated above, but also because just about everything a thief does involves stealth to some degree, so its a more versatile skill when compared to thievery. A thief that can't stay unseen is a dead thief (usually). I personally do not neglect stealing currently, its actually my #4 at the moment i believe, but what about the people that rolled a thief for the Assassin, not the klepto?
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Thief Circle Requirements
06/06/2012 12:18 PM CDT
>I'd have to agree with this. Not only for the reasons stated above, but also because just about everything a thief does involves stealth to some degree, so its a more versatile skill when compared to thievery. A thief that can't stay unseen is a dead thief (usually). I personally do not neglect stealing currently, its actually my #4 at the moment i believe, but what about the people that rolled a thief for the Assassin, not the klepto?
My guess is most people did. One is a PVP powerhouse and an over used stereotype across genres. The other is a moderately novel RP character if actually done.
I would assume that thievery is defined to be more intinsically thievish than hiding. Everyone hides, but thieves thieve. And a really good thief doesn't need to be hidden to do it. Con men, slicksters, and other stealing methods actually depend on having as high a profile and visibility as possible.
But eh.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
My guess is most people did. One is a PVP powerhouse and an over used stereotype across genres. The other is a moderately novel RP character if actually done.
I would assume that thievery is defined to be more intinsically thievish than hiding. Everyone hides, but thieves thieve. And a really good thief doesn't need to be hidden to do it. Con men, slicksters, and other stealing methods actually depend on having as high a profile and visibility as possible.
But eh.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
