Thinking last night about what could be a neat addition in the 940 slot, and it got me thinking about something that could make use of the Force on Force mechanic and stay true to the magic prowess of a Wizard. Basically, I was thinking some sort of 'mirror image' that could be cast, causing a creature (or creatures?) to believe there are multiple opponents and lowering their defensive strength.
KOMBAT
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:02 PM UTC
I wouldn't want this. I'm here for boosters, not pushdowns. Most important is the simultaneous cast in addition to a booster. I also see illusions/intimidation as a sorcerer domain rather than being wizardly.
KOMBAT
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:04 PM UTC
Raise my AS or reduce the DS of what I am attacking ... same difference to me.
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:09 PM UTC
It's absolutely not the same, as my repeated paragraphs about pushdowns vs. boosters says. In any case, it's sorcerer like and not wizardly in my view.
KOMBAT
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:13 PM UTC
No problem, I was just going through Wizard spells from other games and trying to see how they could apply to something unique here in Gemstone for the class. I certainly don't want a 240 clone for Wizards.
COLEMANJ
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:17 PM UTC
>>I certainly don't want a 240 clone for Wizards
This. I don't want the various classes to just be renamed versions of other classes. I like that they have diversity. I like that some classes are better at something, while other classes are better at something else.
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:32 PM UTC
I expect parity but due to the issues that bolts have, I'm confident that the Dev team can come up with something that isn't simply a clone, as they did with 950.
COLEMANJ
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:43 PM UTC
But, unless it does basically the exact same thing, mechanically speaking, it doesn't sound like those promoting a wizard version of 240 are going to be happy. I expect that if we did get something to fill 940, it would be something vastly different than 240. I'd also expect that it would be something that would likely give a mechanical advantage, yes, but I don't expect it would be a recast or multi-cast of previously cast spell.
I expect, in general, that wizards be wizards, sorcerers be sorcers, clerics... well, you get the idea here. I am not an advocate for the mechanical merging of the classes.
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:50 PM UTC
It's not going to be mechanically implemented the same way because with the way bolts and EBP work, a 240 copy wouldn't address the issue sufficiently. I'm promoting the result, which is a high probability of a guaranteed kill, which is not the same thing. I fully expect it will be multi-cast or multi-cycle bolts of some kind because that is the only thing that addresses the problem with the bolting system.
I expect wizards to be able to become magically proficient with bolts. I don't see this as mechanical merging of the classes at all. You can still play without using this tool if you so choose.
Right now, wizards are expected to be wizards without the tools to make them as effective or less tedious in post-cap, single target combat as any other pure enjoys. I expect parity in the quality of life and post-cap lethality, which are all achieved in different ways.
If anything was cookie cutter, it was giving sorcerers balefire, etc.
I expect wizards to be able to become magically proficient with bolts. I don't see this as mechanical merging of the classes at all. You can still play without using this tool if you so choose.
Right now, wizards are expected to be wizards without the tools to make them as effective or less tedious in post-cap, single target combat as any other pure enjoys. I expect parity in the quality of life and post-cap lethality, which are all achieved in different ways.
If anything was cookie cutter, it was giving sorcerers balefire, etc.
COLEMANJ
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:53 PM UTC
>>which is a high probability of a guaranteed kill
Doesn't that statement conflict itself?
High probability means there is at least a small probability of failure. Guaranteed means 100% chance.
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/10/2017 04:57 PM UTC
Put differently... some players not wanting a tool is not a reason to not grant it. There were tons of spell updates that I didn't want, yet they all got pushed through because certain players or builds wanted them (902, etc).
It's what a subset of players, many post-cap pures, do want that should drive positive development and implementation of tools. This is a disparity between post-cap bolting and warding spells that's backed up by evidence and numerical data, so it's clear that Estild recognizes that this gap exists. I'm going to continue to move the discussion forward by finishing gathering the data and summarizing the results.
Tools are there to give players options in how to play. More cake for everyone!
It's what a subset of players, many post-cap pures, do want that should drive positive development and implementation of tools. This is a disparity between post-cap bolting and warding spells that's backed up by evidence and numerical data, so it's clear that Estild recognizes that this gap exists. I'm going to continue to move the discussion forward by finishing gathering the data and summarizing the results.
Tools are there to give players options in how to play. More cake for everyone!
ALLENM20
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/11/2017 01:08 PM UTC
Once again, it would be nice if the following occurred in idea threads.
Player shares an idea regarding something.
Others chime in on what they LIKE about the idea and build upon it from there.
Players do not chime in with, I DON'T LIKE YOUR IDEA BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE THING I WANT.
All players allow the GMS to make up their own minds regarding the ideas being presented and if something is changed, learn to accept it as there is a great deal in life outside your control.
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
Player shares an idea regarding something.
Others chime in on what they LIKE about the idea and build upon it from there.
Players do not chime in with, I DON'T LIKE YOUR IDEA BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE THING I WANT.
All players allow the GMS to make up their own minds regarding the ideas being presented and if something is changed, learn to accept it as there is a great deal in life outside your control.
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/11/2017 01:18 PM UTC
No, I don't like the idea because it won't solve the problem, plus it's not my idea of what is wizardly. Ideas are to be commented upon, as Sleken said. The last thing I want to end up with is like the ELR or waste Dev time on something that misses addressing the problem. Accept that players have opinions, backed by fact, about what is going to address issues.
ALLENM20
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/11/2017 01:55 PM UTC
Please accept that there are an equal number of players that have a different opinion.
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.
AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4
LADYFLEUR
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/11/2017 01:59 PM UTC
If you have a different opinion, backed by fact, then by all means stand up for your opinion and idea. That's what discussion is about.
KOMBAT
Re: 940: Mirror Image
05/11/2017 02:55 PM UTC
Reply Reply
>>No, I don't like the idea because it won't solve the problem
Your problem statement is that Wizards lack the same reliable instant kill that spiritual/non-bolting classes do, which Estild has said multiple times is not the intended design ... making 'the problem' an opinion.
>>No, I don't like the idea because it won't solve the problem
Your problem statement is that Wizards lack the same reliable instant kill that spiritual/non-bolting classes do, which Estild has said multiple times is not the intended design ... making 'the problem' an opinion.